Showing posts with label Joshua. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Joshua. Show all posts

Sunday, August 24, 2025

Is the Prophecy of Deut. 18:15 of a Prophet Like Unto Moses Fulfilled in Joshua?

 

Here's a short chat I had with Facebook's Meta AI

AP (me): We Christians claim Deut. 18:15 is a prophecy about Jesus. While Jews often claim that it's not Jesus, but [that it is fulfilled in] Joshua. How can a Christian refute that claim? Or respond in a way that shows it couldn't be fulfilled in Joshua?


META AI: *Understanding the Debate:*


The interpretation of Deuteronomy 18:15 is a topic of debate between Christians and Jews. Christians often understand this verse as a prophecy about Jesus Christ, while Jews interpret it as referring to a prophet like Joshua or another figure from the Old Testament.


*The Verse:*


Deuteronomy 18:15 says, "The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen—"


*Arguments for Jesus:*


Here are some points that Christians might make to argue that Deuteronomy 18:15 refers to Jesus:


1. *The Prophet Like Moses:* The verse speaks of a prophet like Moses, who will be raised up by God. Jesus is often seen as a prophet like Moses, as both figures were mediators between God and humanity. Jesus' role as a prophet, priest, and king makes him a suitable candidate for this prophecy.

2. *The Context of the Passage:* Deuteronomy 18:15-19 is part of a larger passage that discusses the role of prophets in Israel. The passage emphasizes the importance of listening to the prophet who will be raised up by God. Jesus is seen as the ultimate prophet who speaks on behalf of God, and his message is one that requires attention and obedience.

3. *The Scope of the Prophecy:* The prophecy in Deuteronomy 18:15 has a broader scope than just the immediate context of Joshua's time. The verse speaks of a prophet who will be raised up in the future, and Jesus' coming fulfills this prophecy in a way that Joshua's role did not.


*Refuting the Claim that it's Joshua:*


To respond to the claim that Deuteronomy 18:15 refers to Joshua, Christians might point out the following:


1. *Joshua's Limited Role:* While Joshua was a significant figure in Israel's history, his role was limited to leading the people into the Promised Land. Jesus, on the other hand, has a much broader impact, as his message and ministry extend beyond the Jewish people to all nations.

2. *The Lack of Fulfillment:* Joshua did not fulfill the prophecy in a way that would make it impossible for Jesus to be the fulfillment. The prophecy in Deuteronomy 18:15-19 speaks of a prophet who will be raised up by God, and Jesus' resurrection and exaltation make him a more suitable candidate for this prophecy.

3. *The Typological Connection:* Christians might argue that there is a typological connection between Moses and Jesus, with Jesus being the ultimate fulfillment of the prophecy. This connection is based on the similarities between Moses' and Jesus' roles as mediators and prophets.


*Engaging in a Respectful Dialogue:*


When discussing Deuteronomy 18:15 with Jewish friends or scholars, it's essential to approach the conversation with respect and an open mind. By listening to their perspectives and sharing your own understanding, you can engage in a fruitful dialogue that explores the complexities of biblical interpretation.


Ultimately, the debate surrounding Deuteronomy 18:15 highlights the importance of understanding the biblical context, the role of prophets in Israel, and the nature of prophecy itself. By examining the passage in its historical and literary context, we can gain a deeper appreciation for the complexities of biblical interpretation and the various perspectives that exist within the Jewish and Christian traditions.


AP: Wouldn't Deut. 34:10-12 be a good refutation that Deut. 18:15 is fulfilled in Moses given that Deut. 34:10-12 is said after verse 9. Had Joshua been the fulfillment in v. 9, then vv. 10-12 wouldn't have been said.


META AI: *Deuteronomy 34:10-12:*


Deuteronomy 34:10-12 says, "And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, none like him for all the signs and the wonders that the Lord sent him to do in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land, and for all the mighty power and all the great deeds of terror that Moses did in the sight of all Israel."


*The Significance of Deuteronomy 34:10-12:*


You're right that Deuteronomy 34:10-12 provides a strong argument against the idea that Deuteronomy 18:15 is fulfilled in Joshua or any other prophet like him. The passage explicitly states that there has not been a prophet like Moses since his time, which suggests that Moses' role and ministry are unique.


*The Implication for Deuteronomy 18:15:*


Given the statement in Deuteronomy 34:10-12, it's reasonable to conclude that Deuteronomy 18:15 is not referring to a prophet like Joshua, but rather to a prophet like Moses who will be raised up in the future. The fact that Deuteronomy 34:10-12 emphasizes Moses' uniqueness and the lack of a similar prophet since his time suggests that the prophecy in Deuteronomy 18:15 is looking forward to a future figure who will be like Moses in some way.


*The Case for Jesus:*


In light of Deuteronomy 34:10-12, the case for Jesus being the fulfillment of Deuteronomy 18:15 becomes stronger. Jesus is often seen as a prophet like Moses, and his ministry and message are similar to Moses' in many ways. The New Testament writers, such as Stephen in Acts 7 and the author of Hebrews, also draw parallels between Moses and Jesus, highlighting Jesus' role as a mediator and prophet.


*A Strong Argument:*


Your observation about Deuteronomy 34:10-12 provides a strong argument for understanding Deuteronomy 18:15 as a prophecy that looks forward to a future figure like Jesus, rather than being fulfilled in Joshua or another prophet like him. This argument is based on the biblical text itself and highlights the importance of considering the broader context when interpreting specific passages.




Wednesday, September 10, 2014

Can God Stop Iron Chariots


But the mountain shall be thine; for it is a wood, and thou shalt cut it down: and the outgoings of it shall be thine: for thou shalt drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots, and though they be strong.- Joshua 17:18

And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.- Judges 1:19

It's been argued by skeptics that the above verses are contradictory because God promises to empower the Israelites to successfully drive out the Canaanites. Yet, God Himself wasn't able to drive out the inhabitants of the lowlands because they had iron chariots.

1. God promised to drive out the Canaanites slowly.

 29 I will not drive them out from before thee in one year; lest the land become desolate, and the beast of the field multiply against thee. 30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.- Exo. 23:29-30
 2. The "he" in Judges 1:19 is Judah, not God. It was Judah who wasn't able to drive out the inhabitants, not God. Modern translations make that clear. Anyone who has read the Bible knows that tribes and people groups were sometimes spoken of as if they were one person. Even being called "he," "him," or "his" (etc.). That's because the progenitor or leader of a group both represents the group, along with the group being associated with the progenitor or leader.

3. God didn't promise that the Israelites would win every single one of the battles. The winning of battles were partly conditioned on their faithfulness to God (Judges 2:1-3). Even faithfulness didn't guarantee 100% victory. Even back then they had a deep understanding of God's sovereignty and providence. They knew that whatever happened, good or bad, happened by God's permission and decree. Yet at the same time, they knew that some providences are especially indicative of God's attitude of favor and approval or disfavor and disapproval. See, for example, how David reacted to Shimei's curses upon him (2 Sam. 16:5-14). David acknowledged that Shimei cursed him in accordance with God's providence.

4. Being "with" or "on the side" of someone has degrees. For example, Jerry can tell George that he's with George in his plan to lose 30 pounds and run a scheduled marathon a year from now. Jerry's support can range from weekly or daily phone calls of encouragement to daily waking up George at the crack of dawn and helping him train. Even spending hundreds of dollars in equipment to help George be ready for the marathon. Depending on Israel's faithfulness, God could be with the Israelites.

5. God works by 1. ordinary providence, 2. special providence and 3. extraordinary providence (see my definitions and explanations HERE). God being with someone doesn't entail that they can do anything at any time. God may be with Elaine but that doesn't necessarily mean that Elaine, as a five foot three inches woman, can dunk a basketball. By God's ordinary providence Elaine probably won't be able to dunk a basketball. However, by God's special or extraordinary providence Elaine would be able to dunk a basketball.

Similarly, by God's ordinary providence Judah may not have been able to drive out the inhabitants of the lowlands at that time. But that doesn't mean that they would be not able to do so in the future by God's ordinary providence. Or even in the future by God special or extraordinary providence.

So, this alleged contradiction and theological conundrum is actually pretty vacuous.